[cak387]

Alright, I should have some headers here by the middle of this week and wanted to ask some questions about installation. I will probably be the one installing them for the most part, or have a buddy over to help me if needed. Headers type is SSAC. So here are my questions.

1. Are their any special tools I will need to install them? I don't own a welder but I know the owner of a local shop that can do that.

2. What gaskets will I need? Everyone says the stainless gaskets that come with the headers will leak.

3. How many clamps will I need and are these the ones I need? Link

4. I'm going to have a wideband hooked up to it so will I need an extra bung in place to have it tuned? It will just be tuned using a wideband by PRJ and I won't be running a wideband myself.

5. Will I need an o2 extension for the front o2? Some say I will some say no.

6. Should I just buy the flex that ZZP sells and have it welded or is the flex I'm going to have be alright?

7. Do you guys have any suggestions, tips, or tricks on installing headers? I have never done something like this before but I can set aside a couple days if needed. I know Chris said it took him roughly 6 hours to install, so I figured double for me

This post has been edited by cak387: 15 February 2010 - 10:11 PM

[bumpin96monte]

Which headers? That makes a difference...

[cak387]

They are slp knockoffs. Similar, if not the same as the SSAC's.

[me6894]

cak387, on 15 February 2010 - 09:47 PM, said:

Alright, I should have some headers here by the middle of this week and wanted to ask some questions about installation. I will probably be the one installing them for the most part, or have a buddy over to help me if needed. Headers type is SSAC. So here are my questions.

1. Are their any special tools I will need to install them? I don't own a welder but I know the owner of a local shop that can do that.

2. What gaskets will I need? Everyone says the stainless gaskets that come with the headers will leak.

3. How many clamps will I need and are these the ones I need? Link

4. I'm going to have a wideband hooked up to it so will I need an extra bung in place to have it tuned? It will just be tuned using a wideband by PRJ and I won't be running a wideband myself.

5. Will I need an o2 extension for the front o2? Some say I will some say no.

6. Should I just buy the flex that ZZP sells and have it welded or is the flex I'm going to have be alright?

7. Do you guys have any suggestions, tips, or tricks on installing headers? I have never done something like this before but I can set aside a couple days if needed. I know Chris said it took him roughly 6 hours to install, so I figured double for me

1. No, basic hand tools will do although an impact with a swivel socket and long extension helps with the dp to rear manifold bolts. Might need a torch to heat the bolts up that go to the catback, they can break.

2. The link you showed me before looked like it came with everything you need. Mine didn't come with the slipfit clamps but everything else (vband and manifold gaskets) I used what came with it. If yours doesn't come with clamps you need a 3" vband, 2 3" slip clamps and 2 2.25" slip clamps (I think).

3. See 2.

4. On mine (looks to be the same as yours) is has another o2 bung just before the flange for the catback. That's what I will use if I ever get a wideband.

5. Yes you need an o2 extension.

6. I would buy the double walled flex since its only 20 bucks and its alot easier to have someone weld it in with the header not on the car. I don't have it, it ticks a little but honestly I don't even notice anymore.

7. You will need to drop the rear of the cradle to get the rear one in. Some people push it up from the bottom and some (like me) go from the top. I've installed 2 sets of these type and 1 set of ZZPs headers and both are a b**ch to get the rear header in (although ZZPs is a bit easier). One piece of advice is to smear copper rtv on all the slip fit connections. This is what I did (I think)... With the front manifold, crossover, and rear manifold off, start with the rear header. This will give you more room to rock the motor forward. You will need to have the dogbones unbolted, and the first set I did we had two guys tugging on the motor while I "pursuaded" the rear header in. Once the rear is dropped start a few of the bolts/nuts, but don't tighten yet (don't forget the gasket). Next install the front header, start a few bolts but once again don't tighten. With the front and rear both loose you can squeeze the crossover in. Smear copper rtv over both connections and slide it in the front and rear header. Now tighten the front and rear headers and then you can put the clamps on the crossover.

One thing to note is to test fit all the connections before you throw them on. Sometimes you need to expand one to make the slip fit.

The two sets of ssac headers I did both in one day. First took around 6 hours (also replaced power steering lines on the regal), the second took about 5, both using air tools. The set of zzp headers I did I didn't use any air tools so it took about 5-6 hours also.

This post has been edited by me6894: 15 February 2010 - 10:24 PM

[3800power]

Rotate the motor forward, and drop the rear part of the sub frame to get the rear header in.

Use felpro exhaust manifold gaskets, I had copper RTV spray laying around do I used that too, but you probably don't need it.

You will need to drill into the exhaust somewhere after the front O2, and before the cat, and weld in an O2 bung. Personally, while you are at it, I would weld everything after the v-band, besides the flange to the cat back. Since my whole exhaust is welded, IDK what gasket to use, but the stocker blows, so talk to Matt, he replaced that gasket, and it worked.

Do NOT use those clamps, those clamps blow. Use the accuseal clamps off ebay, and put the front one like this (I know it is hard to see, but you will know what I mean). If you put it the other way, it WILL leak, and WILL throw your fueling WAY off.



This one might be a bit easier to see. You see how the clamp is facing the way it is, that is so it seals over the relief cuts in the header.

http://s195.photobuc...rent=Cam022.jpg

The rear one, face the bolt toward the passenger side of the car, and hit it with a swivel, a really long extension, and an impact.

You will need the O2 extension, get it from ZZP.

I used the flex, I didn't bother with seeing if it ticked or not.

If you have any other questions LMK, I'm sure I will be around here sometime.

[3800power]

Yeah, definitely use copper RTV goop on the slip fits.

Also, if you do drop the sub frame, unbolt the steering shaft, or you can snap it.

[cak387]

I should have thrown in that I do have an impact. Thanks for the help guys.

[killaz1337]

I got my rear headers in without dropping the subframe. Was tight, but it went through. I told my friend when he did his SLP header installation to do the same thing, and it worked for him too. The engine needs to be JACKED forward, like literally hitting the radiator. He had to take out his MAP sensor with the bracket, I didn't.

i used the accuseal for the front and rear crossover connections originally, But the front started leaking, so I replaced it with this.

http://cgi.ebay.com/...VehicleQ5fParts

Never leaked since. It's wide so It can fill the whole area of the relief cut and more, and that paired with some RTV under it, no way in hell it can leak.But it's cheap and not a big deal, get the accuseal's first everyone has had success with them but me apparently

The way I did it was:

Take off the front manifold, then crossover. Jack engine forward then remove rear manifold. Clean off the heads where the gasket goes with a razor blaze, then put the gasket on, it will hang on the studs in the head. Then put the rear header in. Finger tighten it down. Next install the crossover, put the band clamp on but don't tighten. Now release the engine so it's not leaning forward anymore. Put the gasket in place, and start putting the front header on, while sliding it into the crossover. Tighten the rear and front manifolds first, then position the crossover and tighten it last. Make sure it's in evenly inside the front and rear header.

Also what I did, is I put some RTV around the crossover when I was sliding it into the rear header, and then I put some on the front when we were sliding in the front header.

From my experience, the RTV is gonna mess up your 02 sensor. I changed mine afterwords because it threw a code, and it was red from the RTV burning.

Chris,

This post has been edited by killaz1337: 16 February 2010 - 10:50 PM

[cak387]

Ok, well I picked up some gaskets from Oreilly's today and made sure everything matched up good, and it looks like a perfect fit. All the holes line up on both the front and rear header and there is no overhang, so it looks good. Another question though. For the RTV copper, I noticed that it says for intermittent temperatures up to 700*. It's the permatex ultra copper. Is that what you guys used? If so, how much did you guys use on the slip fits? Just a 1/4" bead or more?

[3800power]

GLOB the RTV on. IDK what others did, and frankly, I don't care either, but I had a buddy of mine put the RTV on while rotating the header, and I would smear it with my finger, so taht about 1/2-3/4" of an inch of the slip fit had goop on it. Yeah a lot gets 'squeezed out,' but it is better than a leak.

[me6894]

Ya I basically globbed the sh*t out of it too.

[bumpin96monte]

Quote

For the RTV copper, I noticed that it says for intermittent temperatures up to 700*. It's the permatex ultra copper. Is that what you guys used? If so, how much did you guys use on the slip fits? Just a 1/4" bead or more?

Yes, the copper RTV is what you need- I wish I would've done it to mine, because mine leaks there, even with good quality clamps.

[cak387]

Another question. What plugs should I run? Since I will have easy access to the rear of the engine, I figured I would just change plugs while I'm back there. My mods will be then headers, pulley, tune, intake.

Also, FWIW, I picked up some of the clamps that Chris used. I was talking with a local diesel guy that said I could get them at a diesel shop here in town, so I went and looked and got two 3" clamps for $12.04 + tax and they ordered me the 2.25" for the same price.

[3800power]

AL 104's gapped at .055".

[me6894]

^what he said.

If you mean the vband clamp that's a good deal.

[cak387]

Alright, thanks for the plug info. I'm using the Vband clamp that came with it, but ditching the cheap exhaust clamps. I can't even fit the clamps that came with it over the pipe, so I just bought all new band clamps made by Torca (who makes the accuseals I think).

[RICH17]

Well idk if the headers are coated or not but if not I'd recomend wrapping them in 1 inch exhaust wrap. Makes the engine bay alot cool and if done right they hold up well. The first engine start up with them on and theyll smoke alot but its them just curing. Best of luck to ya!

[cak387]

If I ever wrap anything, it will be the flex. Other than that, I'm not going to waste the time or money. And they are made out of T-304 Stainless so no rusting

[me6894]

Don't wrap anything or else they will rust. Wrapping is ugly anyways lol

[3800power]

me6894, on 05 March 2010 - 10:08 PM, said:

Don't wrap anything

That's what she said.

[me6894]

3800power, on 05 March 2010 - 11:09 PM, said:

me6894, on 05 March 2010 - 10:08 PM, said:

Don't wrap anything

That's what he said.

I don't wanna hear about your bf

[cak387]

Well lets update this thread a little. I started Monday afternoon taking everything off for my header install. I had everything off in about 2-3 hours (except for the cat-back bolts) and was ready to start putting them on. Well, by the time I got around to it, it started to get dark so I just called it quits for the night and would start today, after I got off work.

Today comes, we go to take the cat-back bolts off, but still no luck. I thought "well I could just cut them off and weld." So I quit that and I try to get the rear header in. No luck from the top. Okay try underneath. Still no luck. Go back to the top. Still a no. Now a friend of mine and a friend of his, both with GP's come over to give a hand. We just try fitting the front on to see if it fits. NO!!! It doesn't fit. My AC hard lines are too close to the exhaust ports and the header can't get on the stud without forcing the lines out of the way. Now I'm a little upset. Us three then try the rear header with no luck. Tomorrow it is getting trailered to the shop where they will cut the flex off, put the rear header in, then reweld the flex. They will also finish up the rest of the headers for me. My two buddies who were here said they were not a problem on any other car that they put headers on and this is the only one with the AC lines in the way.

Also, now I have a small oil leak somewhere, my tranny has lost some fluid from the dipstick hole from moving that out of the way, I snapped a stud off the vacuum manifold on the supercharger, both cat-back bolts are rounded and need cut off, my oil dipstick bracket is twisted some weird way. The list could keep going I'm sure. I just hope that the shop won't have too many problems with it.


Oh yeah, I forgot to mention that I am now driving my 97 blazer. It only has 45,xxx on the clock which is awesome, but one thing...The gas peddle likes to stick!!!

End Rant

[me6894]

Lol damn dude that shop's gonna rape you in labor with all the other sh*t you broke

Any pics of the a/c line that was in the way? Shoulda asked here first.

[Nick07]

cak387, on 16 March 2010 - 08:16 PM, said:

The gas peddle likes to stick!!!

I bet the same people that built your blazer are the ones workin at Toyota now

[cak387]

me6894, on 16 March 2010 - 08:25 PM, said:

Lol damn dude that shop's gonna rape you in labor with all the other sh*t you broke

Any pics of the a/c line that was in the way? Shoulda asked here first.

They do a lot of work on mod'd 3800's. They put in my friends headers and a do a lot of 3" exhaust for next to nothing. They did his headers, 3" exhaust, mufflers, and tips all for $170. The shop owner is best friends with the IndyGPC VP.

Edit: No pics of the line. It runs right next/under the fans in the front of the engine bay.

This post has been edited by cak387: 16 March 2010 - 08:50 PM

[bumpin96monte]

Quote

My AC hard lines are too close to the exhaust ports and the header can't get on the stud without forcing the lines out of the way.

Why didn't you remove the stud and replace it with a bolt? The studs just make it easier to get everything aligned- but aren't required.

Quote

Now I'm a little upset. Us three then try the rear header with no luck.

What was wrong with the rear header?

[cak387]

bumpin96monte, on 16 March 2010 - 10:38 PM, said:

Quote

My AC hard lines are too close to the exhaust ports and the header can't get on the stud without forcing the lines out of the way.

Why didn't you remove the stud and replace it with a bolt? The studs just make it easier to get everything aligned- but aren't required.

Quote

Now I'm a little upset. Us three then try the rear header with no luck.

What was wrong with the rear header?

I didn't know that stud came out??? It didn't feel like it did and I never had to remove it to get the front manifold off.

As for the rear header, we just couldn't get it to fit. It's a pain in the butt without a lift and we tried some weird angles.

[me6894]

If you're talking about just getting the rear into place you need to either rock the motor forward or drop the cradle or do a combination of the two.

[bumpin96monte]

Quote

I didn't know that stud came out???

Yeah- they aren't part of the head- its still a separate piece threaded in. I could've swore it was just a small regular socket on the end.

[cak387]

bumpin96monte, on 16 March 2010 - 11:59 PM, said:

Quote

I didn't know that stud came out???

Yeah- they aren't part of the head- its still a separate piece threaded in. I could've swore it was just a small regular socket on the end.

I checked on the stud, and yes they are just a really small socket on the end. I will deal with it all tomorrow at the shop. Hopefully I can work on it while on the lift a little.

The motor was rocked as far forward as it would go and still nothing. The flex is hitting at the bottom where I think the steering stuff is. There is a heat blanket there and I still need at least 2".

I just got done putting all the manifolds back on and ran it for about 10 minutes, and no SES lights lol. My neighbors love me I'm sure.