[DigitallyPhoenix]

Ok since i got my 96 Z34 in 2001 i have gone thru, its original trany, a rebuild, and the great performance build is starting to show its age...

Here is what I'd like to do...
L32 swap with trany into my 96 Z34? : edit : going with L36 and trany out of a 98 Z34 then topswap

Depending on if i can find a donor i may end up with a low miles L24? or L36. I'd actually prefer the higher compression.

From what i know so far:
*Engine cradle will work.
*I need:
**Upper Engine Mounts
**Radiator Hoses (Upper Lower and pair to heater core?)
added ... Heater core lines.
**need to beat the Hell out of my fire wall so i can get a down pipe in. ??? Will a set of pacesetter headers help any esp if i mod??? ended up with Speed Daddy headers. and even with all the pounding i do rub some on the driver side fire wall with the SD headers. another 1/2" would have cleared it. i will take care of this when i install the topswap
**Harness??? hybrid between my harness and a L32? is a 98-99 3800 harness close enough to work on a L32 to warrant tracking one down just to cut it up anyway. chances are i will have the harness from what ever donor engine/trany i get i have a 99 GTP PCM that i can flash with my tuner to what ever. unless i need a newer pcm for a L32??? I ended up finding a 98Z34 harness and got a 98 PCM. thanks to brianteel from motorswap.org and Dave96z34 i got the pin outs to make the harness changes to work with the fire wall.

Ok so lots of questions i guess. i appreciate any help. and I am a wiz at tuning. so if anyone needs help down here in florida i just might be your guy!

Here are pics:





Before:



After:

again the SD headers rubbed on the driver side of the hole. and the O2 sensor did not fit. i had to weld in a bung under the car in the down pipe. when i do the topswap i plan on opening up the sections of the fire wall to better make room for the sensor and headers.

thanks to bumpin's writeup over on montecarloforum.com i was able to know where to cut and pound the fire wall back. the engine is going in tomorrow so wont know 100% if it all worked yet but it should have been more then enough.

This post has been edited by DigitallyPhoenix: 16 May 2012 - 09:19 AM

[Cully77]

Good to see you back Phoenix, I look forward to seeing the swap progress.

[3800power]

Only thing I can really help you with is the headers. Definitely go with pacesetters. Get the coated ones for sure. You will have to cut part of the firewall out, and definitely pound some back up top too. I pounded a bit less than bumpin did in his write up (follow that, it explains basically everything) and still had plenty of room, but if you are dropping the cradle out, go at it with the biggest hammer you can get. The pacesetter headers have 1 3/4" primaries, and a 2.5" crossover pipe, so they only ones that might outflow those headers would be either TOG extremes which are very rare, or ZZP headers, which are very expensive.

I definitely recommend going with the high compression 3800, from what I have seen, the L36 is actually stronger than the L26, so if you can find a low mileage one, have at it. While you have the motor out, it would be very wise to put a cam in, and everyone here knows I am partial to the XP. Hands down the best cam ever made for this motor. That setup alone should get you into the 12's with a good tune and a 1.9/2.0 60'.

[HeavyChevy3800]

You need everything someone will need to swap an L67 into their pre 98-99 Monte Carlo or Lumina.
Use a 98-02 tranny. The 97 and 03+ are wired differently and need the same year PCM to run them.
Use a 98-99 3800 Monte Carlo Harness. It will plug into your firewall and will have everything to run an L67/L32. A factory downpipe and exhaust manifold for the L67/L32 will clear your firewall.
You will need to modify the firewall for headers.
You can't use an L32 Oil pan with a 98-99 Monte Carlo cradle. You will need an L67 oil pan.


Those are just off the top of my head for now while I'm at work. I'm sure I can run through all the differences later when I get some more time. The TB, Injector and rail/lines are different on the L32 also.

[DigitallyPhoenix]

Thanks its good to be back. work and other hobbies have gotten put ahead of my car. it is still running strong but the trany is weak when hot. Being florida... its hot most of the time. my LQ1 has 215,000 Miles on her. still seems strong but the it wont hold up for ever and its time to start planing, saving, and building its replacement heart.

I completely forgot about the injectors and all with the L32... So Yeah sounds like a L36 with L67 top swap will be it then.

IIRC the diff between the 4t65e and 65-HD was just in the Diff right and diff flex plate and tq converter right?

If anyone remembers my GTP i had before i parted it out to pay for my last trany for the Z... im pretty much gonna do the same build.
North Star TB/ My MAF, Im porting the Blower and lower intake manifold again, XP cam, #105's springs, double roller chain, Pacesetter headers, retaining my current 2.5" exhaust.

As for harness and pcm... im not worried about the PCM as i still have my powertuner and have plenty of sample bins. is there a way to use say a 3100 harness fire wall plug cut the rest off and splice in the harness from the newer trany and engine? i'd like to get my hands on as new drive train as i can.... Oh wait i guess after 03 it became the L32... so really 02 is the last year really to grab a trany....

[3800power]

They are probably fixed by now (I am almost 100% sure they are) but the 105's were cracking last year IIRC. There is a graph floating around somewhere of the seat pressure based upon cam lift, and the LS6 (being actual GM springs) have the same slope as the stock springs, just increase pressure at all lifts. The 105's start strong, and waver out in the higher lift. Personally I wouldn't go for anything other than the yellow LS6 springs. People were having to replace their 105's after like 20k miles, the LS6's were lasting 100k+. In case you didn't notice, I ran the LS6's after some research/talking to kemp, heavy, mayes, etc.

Secondly, I ran a new stock timing chain when I threw the cam in. That and a new damper and I was good to go. Put somewhere between 15-20k miles on that setup, and the damper still looks brand new. If you want I can take a picture of it. Timing chain was not stretched either. A lot of people have been having trouble with the double rollers, JP's were definitely worse, but the rollmasters were snapping (I think Kemp had one snap, pettinelli had one snap on him, etc.) as well.

Link to carnage: http://www.clubgp.co...tmode=1&smode=1

[jaybaum96]

remember too, the axles are a pain in the ass. When building your custom axles, make sure they are both stock. I tried using axles from autozone, and got a reman off clubgp, they didnt work. You need oem axles otherwise the splines are all the wrong size.

Also, many people look past it but you will most likely need a different throttle cable. The one for the 3800 is diffrent than a 3100 or 3.4 so it doesnt let you go WOT. Pick one up from a yard from any 3800 monte or lumina, i think i actually may have gotten mine from a gp, but im not sure.

This post has been edited by jaybaum96: 09 March 2011 - 11:31 AM

[DigitallyPhoenix]

Awsome so scratch the double roller and 105s I'd rather have GM part under the valve covers ESP if they are ls6 parts all good info keep it coming lol like said I was away for a bit and missed out.

[nitehawkjcb]

The gearing for the transmissions are different, HD's have 2.93's, non-HD's have 3.29's I believe.

I had no issues with my stock 3100 throttle cable.

Definately use OEM axles.

[3800power]

IDK what you do or don't know, so I will keep throwing out my thoughts as they come to me, haha. With the XP you need to run the modified retainers, those you can get from ZZP. The LS6 springs, I would just buy them from lingenfelter.com (I think that is what the site is). Let them know you need 12 and you can buy all them for like 50 bucks. If you can swing it, run a Gen 5 blower. You can do some mild porting to it if you'd like, but there really is not much to be gained from doing so. A Gen 5/XP/Pacesetter build should put you around 300-320whp depending on air/tune, etc. etc. All you would really need to do after that is put a full size IC on it. I don't think really anyone has mentioned much yet, but what are you planning on doing for a trans? Dave at Triple Edge is the way to go, unless you plan on building it yourself.

[RICH17]

Is there a year difference between 1.5 gens on the 3100 cables? I plan on swapping next weekend and was told Id have to switch em out

[bumpin96monte]

Not sure how far you got, but I'll add what I can...

Quote

**need to beat the Hell out of my fire wall so i can get a down pipe in. ??? Will a set of pacesetter headers help any esp if i mod???

Headers will definitely help- the stock DP and such will drop right in though. I hope you know what you're getting into putting headers in a 5th gen monte though- its definitely not fun. I'd almost rather have just swapped it with stock mani's and downpipe first just to get the swap done and running, then worry about messing with hacking the car up for headers later. Maybe pound out the firewall area a bit, and cut off that little divot that sticks into the DP area, and just run stock in the short term- then hack away when you get some headers later.

Quote

is there a way to use say a 3100 harness fire wall plug cut the rest off and splice in the harness from the newer trany and engine? i'd like to get my hands on as new drive train as i can.... Oh wait i guess after 03 it became the L32... so really 02 is the last year really to grab a trany....

IMO, that's a terrible idea. Obviously, it would definitely work- but I just see no reason to do it, when there is literally a plug and play harness available. I'd hold off the swap, and even drive a couple hours to get a 98/99 Z harness. Besides the pain the butt with the wiring job itself, then you have a bunch of extra connections to worry about. I've helped people walk through swaps on the phone and through PM's that have tried this- and it makes it so much harder than it needs to be- one guy kept having all kinds of random issues and never could get it to run right (forgot his SN).

Quote

Is there a year difference between 1.5 gens on the 3100 cables? I plan on swapping next weekend and was told Id have to switch em out

I used the stock throttle cable from my 3100, and it goes WOT just fine.

[DigitallyPhoenix]

Ok going to keep things in here so its all in one place. sorry for the other two threads wanted to link them over to here.

Update: On Oct 3rd 2011 my monte stalled out and never restarted. she was running very strong right up to when she began to stumble pulling away from a light and rpms fell until it cut out. a near by shop looked at it, as i was almost 3 hours away from home, and figured it was the Timing belt. they didn't have the tools to change it or try resetting the timing, nor did i want to spend what they would charge to do this. I had the car towed back home and found it had barely 30psi of compression on any cylinder. then noticed on cranking gasses were being pushed out the intake side of the heads. Timing deff jumped and was keeping the intake valves open on the compression stroke. Update 5/16/12 i got word from the shop where i did the swap. i left them the old engine. in his spare time he was curious and tore it down. a piece of the timing chain tensioner broke! it got stuck in the chain and caused it to jump when ever that part of the chain reached the gears. so the timing belt was never at fault. it was the dummy chain. he said that besides a little scaling on the pistons and some on the heads they looked to be in perfect condition! seems 215,000 miles doesnt phase this engine at all. almost sad to think a new chain tensioner and retiming would have kept it on the road longer, but then again i never would have found the issue without the full tear down. The cost of a new belt, pulleys, and the tools to do the job would cost almost as much as a l36. with my current trany weak, and no guaranty that there wasn't any internal damage, i decided that the best option was to do an engine swap. I already have a 98 Z harness and got lucky that Morad had a 98 Z engine and trany with low miles that had just come in. it had everything i need to drop in my 96 Z.

Phase 1 of the build is to drop in the L36 and trany and get the car driving. along with the engine i picked up the topswap kit. Morad offers a 90 day warranty, so i have about 90 days to drive and make sure the power-train is good. This will give me time to port the heads, blower, and match a North Star TB to it. I also picked up a set of Speed Daddy headers to be installed while the L36 is being dropped in.

Phase 2 is to install the top swap and tune the heck out of it.

after phase 2 i will be as follows:
-L36
-FWI
-My 3" MAF sensor
-North star TB
-Ported blower
-Ported Lower intake manifold
-Ported heads
-Headers
-my current 2.5" high flow exhaust.

my running the stock 3.8" pulley im guessing i could possibly even run regular gas! prob wont as i will push tuning and timing on it.

This post has been edited by DigitallyPhoenix: 16 May 2012 - 09:27 AM

[cak387]

Don't cheap out and run 87 octane. For the extra ~$0.30 per gallon, I would rather be safe than sorry and run 93 octane.

Also for the headers, get the rear manifold in first before you drop the engine in as they are a pain to do with the engine in. You could also use this time to beat the hell out of the firewall and/or cut it to make sure you have enough room.

With doing ported heads, you might as well cam it also

[DigitallyPhoenix]

yeah i prob will still run 93 as i am used to it. but just saying with headers and ported heads and blower... could prob run 87 with no probs lol. i would deff be tuned for what ever gas i run. so if it tune for 87 it will be fine... if not then 93 it is.

im not sure on the cam as i don't see myself going XP any time soon and i don't like the sound of the VS cam. will prob end up with 1.8 or 1.9 rockers and ls6 springs. the shop that is going to do the install can worry about how to get it together lol. well the lifting and pounding part. i have the harness almost done and PCM is flashed ready for it. also found the PCM box for it! as the 96 pcm box wont work for the 98 pcm without cutting.

[nitehawkjcb]

You're sure the PCM won't fit? Mine fits in there just barely

[DigitallyPhoenix]

well i got the PCM box for free with the PCM lol so couldnt pass it up.

[nitehawkjcb]

Ahh, I don't blame ya there

[DigitallyPhoenix]

New Pics added at top! engine was finally pulled today and the shop let me get in and do the pounding and cutting to the fire wall for the headers. they say it should be done tomorrow.... so once running i'll have more pics and maybe some video.

[Cully77]

nice firewall carnage!

[DigitallyPhoenix]

thanks... was worried if there was a fire wall behind the lower section that needed cut out. There was!!!

[mrclean]

cut out more of the fire wall along the sides like where the o2 is. trust me. mine still rubbed in the lumi... better safe then sorry, spend time cutting that out and beat the heck outta the stuff u cut already, maybe even cut more.

[DigitallyPhoenix]

the engine is going in right now at the shop... if i have probs with the O2 at this point it would be easier to have a new O2 bung installed !! i know i would have to lengthen the wires but that is no prob or i could buy the extension anyway.

i pounded quite a bit and cut and folded it all back... it came out looking smooth but it all folded back nicely. i should know later today if it has any issues... cross them fingers.

[nitehawkjcb]

Looking good! I can't wait to see the results!

[Buck531]

If the o2 is not going to fit in the stock location, just move it somewhere else. I had mine moved on my S&S headers on the LTZ to the lower part of the rear header.

[DigitallyPhoenix]

mrclean, on 26 October 2011 - 08:34 AM, said:

cut out more of the fire wall along the sides like where the o2 is. trust me. mine still rubbed in the lumi... better safe then sorry, spend time cutting that out and beat the heck outta the stuff u cut already, maybe even cut more.

Dude! how the heck did you see that in the pic lol... i needed like another 1/2 deep in a 1-2" section for the last bit for the O2. my eyes are pretty good but @#$% your eyes are spot on! i ended up putting it on the down pipe extension. and will need to make an O2 extension as i dont have time to wait for one to be shipped from ZZP or WBS.

also did anyone have issues with the lower half of the down pipe hanging too low on the car? it looks awful low. it drops down then back up... i think im gonna have it pounded flat on the bottom to make more ground clearance. or have a shop cut and redo the bend.... any input on this?


after the exhaust, all that is left is to get the fuel lines spliced in, rad fans in, connect the battery and starter cables, add fluids and it should run!

[mrclean]

haha told ya, ik know cuz i went nuts on mine and hit in a lot more than you, and i could just tell .lol

as far as the headers, a lot of guys had the flex/downpipe kinda re done.

http://www.grandprix...-jig-44223.html

theres some info as to what they did. good luck!

[DigitallyPhoenix]

Swap update:
Ok, today i did:
-Fuel lines
-Low pressure PS line
-trany cooler line
-oil change
-moved neg battery cable to clear headers
-secured harness in engine bay

What is left:
-connect High pressure Power steering line to rack (done 11/1/11)
-lower steering boot on rack
-bolt on exhaust and connect O2 sensor
-make original throttle cable work
-change trany filter (done 11/1/11)
-fluids. trany, PS, and coolant
-put on final lug nuts
-install battery, air filter (done 11/1/11)
-install hood

Start procedure:
1)key on look for leaks
2)scan car with tuner to test sensor data.
3)Pull fuel relay and crank engine a few times to prime oil pump
4)reinstall relay and start car. recheck for leaks

Need:
-oil dip stick the part that normally has the o ring is broken and missing.
-throttle cable mine wont fit in the l36 TB and don't think it will pull the tb to 100 WOT.
-hood shock clips as the shop removed two and lost them!

This post has been edited by DigitallyPhoenix: 02 November 2011 - 10:09 AM

[DigitallyPhoenix]

Ok today should be the day i fire her up!

yesterday i picked up the throttle cable from the junk yard police Lumina i have been cannibalizing. along with the mystery driver-side connector, clips for the hood shocks, PCV housing, and a few spare bolts. After work i will pick up the exhaust clamps i need for the header and rear exhaust.

my only cause for concern is when i pulled the thermostat the other day to flush the coolant, there was what i think is oil residue on it. i did not see any residue anywhere else on/in the engine. so maybe someones hands were dirty/oily when they installed the Tstat? The engine had red coolant, dexcool in it so could this be related? here is a pic:

[cak387]

That is just the gunk from running dexcool. I just cleaned out all of mine and switched to Zerex G05. I drained all the coolant from everywhere, ran distilled water over the summer, cleaned the system with a prestone cleaner, drained and flushed again, then filled up with the new Zerex.